Apples or pears, quota or deadline.

When I was a tadpole, my math teacher I ever had instilled add apples with pears. Apparently it is a truism almost insulting, but obviously there are many people who understood the example but not assimilated the concept. This same idea was repeated by the financial math professor several years later in college. "You can not add apples with pears like you can not add money today with tomorrow's money"

If they offer you 50 € a month for 3 months, how you today? ¿150 €?
What do you prefer € 100 or € 100 today morning? It seems clear that today, so are worth more today than € 100 € 100 tomorrow.

The capital can not add or compare if they are not at the same moment in time and to achieve this movement, we must apply a discount rate (the price of deferring capital at the time), which will set as our criteria, but is often used as provided you order it would cost to a bank (Euribor + differential).

So far today is worth the rent (set of payments) Example 3 payments of 50 € if the first payment is made today. Pongo as a 5% discount rate (0.42% monthly).

The first payment today is worth 50 €
The second payment is worth 49.79 € → today [50 / (1.0042)] (50 € a months back)
The third payment worth € → 49.58 today [50 / (1.0042) ²] (50 € two months back)

The value today of an income of 3 monthly payments of 50 euros with payment beginning of period (prepay) is € 149.37. Apparently this is not an exorbitant difference, but the effect of time increases these differences.

If you would like to add € 50 today and 50 € in a year, would see that today are worth € 50 and € 50 within a year, worth € 47.61 today [50 / (1.05)], thus the apparent 100 € actually worth € 97.61 (today). It is also true that same income of 2 payments of 50 €, a year will be worth 102.50 € [50 +50 x1.05].

Capital to move forward and to move towards increased last fall at a rate of (1 + r) n where r is the discount rate and "n" the number of periods.

These simple examples are not intended to be a crash course in financial mathematics, tomadlo as a demonstration that you can not add apples with pears so nobody takes as an act of faith that comment on the reasoning below. The faith for religion, for everything else, facts and numbers. Until everyone here agree? Well agárrense coming curves, I return to the topic or time share?

Example, asked the typical blog:
I have a mortgage with € 150,000 outstanding and payable 25 years and I will recoup € 6,000. (Euribor + 0.50). Against quota or against term?
Sample response typical blog:
With an Excel that I have that I get paid a fee of € 867.21.
If you save time to amortize 22 shares and a half or 19446.54 € (867 * 22 +499)
If amortized share pay € 832.52 which means a saving of € 34.69 x 300 shares = 10,407 €
Therefore depreciated term that leaves you 9.000 € better!

The question is recursive and cansina on the blog, but the answer is a financial disaster, adding apples, pears and kiwis and comparing it to the sum of a bunch of celery and some oranges Washington.

In the case of repayment term, these are poorly € 19,446 plus, but in what it is close in time (almost 2 years between the first and last, but we could give it to "not very wrong"), but what is serious is that no one takes into account that, on average, are within 24 years.

In case of reduction of share, are joining the € 34.69 that fail to pay today with the € 34.69 that fail to pay within 25 years at the latest installment, which capitalized as of today would have a value of 10 , 28 €.

The correct answer is:

€ 6,000 amortization term is equivalent to the value today of an income consists of a payment of 367 € within 23 years and 2 months, followed by 22 monthly payments of € 867.21, right? ... I mean, I give today 6000 € to change that within 23 years and two months I will start to Receivables (fail to pay an obligation which I have) such income.

€ 6,000 to amortize share is equivalent to a monthly rent of 34.69 € for 300 months. OK? ...

Does everyone agree? So we had to do the calculations of the present value of these revenues as of today to know that we should go out and doubts once and for all.

CALCULATIONS TERM

First take the 23 payments at the end of the month put them at 300 for a single point in time. (There is a formula, but it can be done with Excel without any problems).

367 x € ^1.0040741 22 = 401.34 €
867 x € ^1.0040741 21 = 944.51 €
867 x € ^1.0040741 20 = 940.68 €
867 x € ^1.0040741 19 = 936.86 €
... ...
867 x € ^1.0040741 01 = 870.74 €
867 x € ^1.0040741 00 = 867.21 €

Suman 20318.71 € and now I bring this capital 300 months back in time to meet its current value.

20318.71 / ^{(1.004074123)} 300 = € 6000.17 (what chance does not?)

CALCULATIONS TO SHARE

We estimate the current value of an income of 300 monthly payments of € 34.69

(for clarification)

The present value of this income is 6003.27.

CONCLUSIONS:

Whatever you do, stop what you amortize duty, and the present value of what is to amortize the amount to amortize (as insulting as evident from the pears and apples huh?), Or that there is no better option worse, in any case we can say that we prefer one or the other, but that already are subjective considerations.

Financially, it can absorb an early repayment as the "barter" for a specified amount today (€ 6,000) in exchange for the saving of several amounts deferred morning in time (either € 34.69 per month for 25 years or 22 monthly payments € 867 within 23 years).

Further considerations:

If you take another discount rate to Euribor +0.50 different, the result would be another number, but it would be the same for both share to term if the discount rate is constant. The other rate could be what the bank pays us in a warehouse, to know what more we should.
If considerásemos that the rate could vary (which is what will happen but I guess it clear that you do not know where), then if it could be a more profitable strategy than the other, because the pay structure of the two incomes is different, occurring in an end-all, and the other occurring on a regular basis throughout the lifetime of income.
- a) In a scenario of rising rates (throughout the life of the operation) would be better to amortize share, since the amounts paid in the end, to apply a higher discount rate would have a lower current value, then the repayment to term, which gives its fruit at the end of the operation would have a present value lower.
- b) In a scenario of declining rates, we might be interested in reducing against time because the capitalization of the payments will be done away with a discount rate lower, therefore the equivalent income will be less penalized and a higher current value.

The most likely is that the variation in rates is increasing in some periods and decreasing in others (25 years to give much), so you will not get to know us better comes out until you have completed the transaction. So once again demonstrated that the economy and finances are a pseudo-science that goes very well to "predict" the past, but for the future better call the pitonisa Lola.

All this explanation seems to sink into misery Table Excel inspection family budget that he proposed two weeks ago, but despite that sum apples with pears, we can take for valid, as it is periods of less than one year, and has income and expenses, and all re reduced to update its value, so the gap caused by the effect only affects the time differential between these. (reduced revenues, but also costs are reduced by the same proportion to capitalize)

And to finish and try to deduce whether rates will rise or fall in the future, if we should save or amortization, or simply to take away some uncertainty, which better than reading the news of the day.

Written by Oriolrc the Sept. 29, 2008 with 221 points.
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# 1, PapaPitufo

September 29, 2008, at 9:24.

What hurts me most today is what Yohansson of Scarlett.

Sniff

Black Monday ...

# 2, Barans

September 29, 2008, at 9:30.

.. plas plas plas Oriol ... you have left me speechless.
I think we've just given a lesson in financial mathematics at tod @ s.
Greetings.

+49

# 3, Breogan

September 29, 2008, at 9:31.

Oriol very good comparison, it is so clear at once that it does not matter how amortize. The important thing is to do it:).

Now I see that you get good numbers, you could calculate what it cost us, for example, if you put on the following link with a plane full of policemen and migrants who returned to Spain and came back. I find it incredibly embarrassing.

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2008/09/27/espana/1222539289.html

-14

# 4, Emilio

September 29, 2008, at 9:31.

Go Oriol That will be encouraged today by the forum. Stone has left me. Both numbers and time by saying if one or the other thing was better, and we've made it the largest of the ridiculous. But if you say it's like (math myself ... I stayed on the 3rd of BUP, as I am of letters ...) worth Heber learned what today we've shown. A greeting

+13

# 5, Mano H20

September 29, 2008, at 9:31.

Hello everybody.

I fear that today I'm going to go against the current, but I am convinced that this is going to be a good week. And do not say this because yesterday Alonso won the grand prize of Formula 1, but if I can invoke the metaphor to explain.

Alonso has a bad car this year and is doing what it can. Yesterday he smiled and thanks to the fortune of beating other runners, at appropriate times, he met a top unexpected.

Like it or not, that's a joy and we have to enjoy it as such. And though the circumstances remain the same. The car is bad. But that would remove the "BAILAO." And perhaps this moral for them to improve the car for next year.

For us, mortgaged, we can pass something. The economy is fatal at all levels. But perhaps we find ourselves with an unexpected situation, starting this week.

I mean a drop in interest rates by the ECB. A drop that also can be substantial in the coming months. Interesting to read the following article.

http://www.cotizalia.com/cache/2008/09/29/noticias_11_puerta_bajada_tipos_interes_combatir.html

If ultimately approved the macro plan of the U.S. (and it looks like it is going to be that) we can attend the beginning of a new phase. It is possible to reverse the negative trend of the last year. The fact that several European countries enter into technical recession (including Spain) may force the ECB to lower rates, despite not having inflation in the parameters that aims to (have dropped three tenths last month).

Of course under all this is, and will remain, the reality of the criticisms that can be made as to whether this is correct or incorrect state intervention to save the financial crisis (in the plural and interventions in many areas).

We are not directly responsible for the bad mechanics and aerodynamics of the car of Alonso, but we are happy his triumph.

In the same way, we are not directly responsible for the economic situation, but we are pagans that we suffer. Those who are paying a fee for mortgage interest on the clouds, is us.
If we lower the rates and that makes the Euribor down in the coming months, we are glad most of us (some already are not).

I, personally, because that is not me to revise my book with a mortgage that is probably going to be the highest rate in the history of the Euribor. It was that the coming months I will spend canutas to pay the monthly fee. If you do not lose the job, I can afford it, but with more trouble than before. But I pay more for good the next six months if, meanwhile, is going down the Euribor.

That will help a lot of people. Since March 2009 will come and I hope that by then, I also take a breather.

Luck and I hope I say this to be confirmed. For my part, on optimism that it is not. Although it is mixing apples with pears, I like the Macedonian.

Salu2

+88

# 6, Risepa

September 29, 2008, at 9:32.

Good morning.

That what I said at the end of August! Da recoup the same fee to reduce that period to reduce! But I am based in Excel for my love.

Excellent article but I lost a bit because of my lack of
financial culture.

In the end, all roads lead to Rome (or the bank, as you look)

Good morning and greetings

+14

# 7, algecireño

September 29, 2008, at 9:35.

This morning I'm going to learn about a multi mortgage, I aconsejais? I am grateful that I aconsejeis as today or tomorrow I have to pick an option and I do not understand much

# 8, Mandy

September 29, 2008, at 9:37.

Deadline or Fee:
The best thing is to have money to repay.

+85

# 9, krollian

September 29, 2008, at 9:37.

Very good entry today. And illuminating.
At the end you have to pay the debt. And in one way or another do not pounds.
If you reduce the time limit or quota, what you pay per month (due to the inlación) will not be the same now that within 25 years.
500 euros today How much money is equivalent within 25 years?
I'll do as I also said my father with other things. When I was small (I have 38 years) was going to the movies for 15 pesetas. Today it costs 1,000 or more.
If we add to this that do not fall into a precarious (not want anyone) does not charge the same thing today that within 25 years ...

+12

# 10, krollian

September 29, 2008, at 9:40.

# 8, Mandy:

Deadline or Fee:
The best thing is to have money to repay.

You can not refute your lapidary sentence. Olé ...

+11

# 11, Fran Diaz

September 29, 2008, at 9:41.

Stupid trick, but it serves:

Calculate how much you can draw every month to the difference in the share after amortization of these € 6,000, reversing the spread of something else. Shopping pears, apples and kiwis every month and sell, for example.

If doing this exercise you get a benefit greater than the accrued interest, you are interested in lower fee, since what you have not invested in the mortgage so invest in something else and get the benefit.

If you are unable to invest in anything that cost differential, do it on time. And sorry, but whether or not you're a good investor or your mortgage has some bad conditions.

Greetings!
Land owners: the Blog

-4

# 12, katastrofiko

September 29, 2008, at 9:44.

Attentive to the unemployment figures for September, are going to be impressive

# 13, Colonel Perote

September 29, 2008, at 9:45.

This ... How do you say? Ah yes! Okay, Oriol!. The truth is that is so insulting to me is simple not anger me because to do so. It is basically the same as the method of valuation of a property from future income is expected to get for that property.
Either way it does not change my way of seeing things. In fact, I will continue amortizing share every year with the ahorrillos I get monthly. When lowering the Euribor ask me if at some point amortized term, provided that it can maintain the monthly savings that I have now.

Incidentally, I too small for me said they could not add apples with pears. As always I was very contestón, I answered the teacher that if sums 3 pears with 5 blocks, you need are 5 fruit.

# 14, jdx

September 29, 2008, at 9:45.

articulazo often, either hit it out .... oriole, plas plas plas!
MañoH20, today your item is in the background for win .... XDD
anyway, I'll stay with the ray of light, the lower rates by the abuelete ... is perhaps the only positive in all the threshold where we are committed ...

# 15, Poor Hablador

September 29, 2008, at 9:46.

# 11, Fran Diaz:

And how do you calculate the profit? For example, because I can just leave the money in the account if worst comes time, another can be paid a height of the internet to not spend so much in newspapers / music / movies / etc, you can get another term, one can go Holiday "and to remove what BAILAO" ...

That is, not everyone is going to reinvest that money left over to share.

# 16, Breogan

September 29, 2008, at 9:47.

# 13, Colonel Perote

Would it not be 8 fruit?, Jejeje.

+21

# 17, Colonel Perote

September 29, 2008, at 9:47.

Sorry, I meant 2 apples, that I was the Piza

# 18, Colomer

September 29, 2008, at 9:48.

As CLopez said the question is subjective, but what is clear is that the future is uncertain, and if it depreciates term and then I'll stay in my unemployment or low pay, I will be at a overwhelmed. If amortized share, I always have an extra margin with which it can, continue amotizando me if things go well, or go a little better off.

+10

# 19, Carlos Lopez

September 29, 2008, at 9:50.

# 7, algecireño
There is a forum exclusively for people with very multicurrency maja, I recommend: http://www.euribor.com.es/foro/forumdisplay.php?f=2

# 20, Antonio

September 29, 2008, at 9:50.

Good morning,

After a lot of time visiting the Web, today is my day of release. Congratulations to Clopez his articles and the Web.

Among the people who gives new councils and if I were to opt for some Forero, I would do it by Carsola and Attila king of the year, Mano H20 and others who do not remember. Since there is a very good adage which says that it is wise to correct, because there are still many people who have been cheating for years with the issue of housing and easy loan and do not assume.
And with consolations of the floor will be mine but at some price.
And others with rent and always will be mine, as it did not sell. (The rent for a price that is much less than the asking price for a mortgage), sell a little cheaper and earn money, do numbers.
The damage is done and everyone has to find the most appropriate solution to their economic situation to save and divorce as soon as possible of banks that great cross of this generation, for example people who have a variable interest loan that would see a worth the ECSC has fallen as much and now this month is better than the Euribor, who has in his loan was pleased at the next review and advance capital as long as possible.
Never have to follow the masses, there is no one to buy when buying and selling when everyone bought, as long as this at a reasonable price.
And to say that unity is strength and for once the people have to unite for this great scam that has been housing and other services that have done nothing but go up and raise prices (food, parking, taxes, phone, bars, etc.). with the same excuse that people will pay, in these times people are going too yours does not like our parents who fought for their welfare and their children, our generation is very different.
The boom is over and the advice that each person pays for what things are worth and this really willing to pay that this is also a form of saving, which costs a lot of money to win.

We will continue reading.

Greetings,

# 21, Kane

September 29, 2008, at 9:52.

The comment came today because I wanted to do a query on the road we use to excel as they see we have a mortgage and see how affects redemptions. My problem is that with the revision of the Euribor, I get to spend 4.94 to 5.91 and giving me an error in calculating the column of months that I have left to pay. I think peta always gives a big leap interest, because I have tried to pass from 4.94 to 5.5 and the next 6 months pass and everything will be alright. He has come to you? you know of any solution?

# 22, droblo

September 29, 2008, at 9:54.

10 per your article: very useful and well explained.

And damn day today ... do not carry bags or an hour and the Dax down and more than 3% with rumors about the Commerzbank this time ...

# 23, primers

September 29, 2008, at 9:56.

Well, I think Oriol has committed a fault in its calculation, has puzzled the savings in fees with the savings interest.

With those 6,000 euros, advances in the life of the mortgage loan 22.5 quotas, but you only save the entire share capital.

Although we are in crisis, banks still want them to return the money they lend

# 24, danika

September 29, 2008, at 9:59.

The calculation is fantastic but in short everything you can stop paying today, do not forget to pay tomorrow.

Always download fee and never lose time especially in a mortgage of 25 years or more.

Now imagine that you give me 6000 euro for a debt and that, instead of descontartela from tomorrow we will start to discount within 22 years and I still cobrandote the same.

Yesterday, I happened nueba a way to define the current crisis "strike consumers."

A greeting.

# 25, georghenker

September 29, 2008, at 10:00.

Good morning,
I remember some time ago somebody said here that for an entity to operate in Spain, it must be affixed to the Deposit Guarantee Fund ... ..

What surprises me (and has been commented on here), ING Direct does not appear on the list of entities FGD

As I assume that I am not alone in having saved hard 4 ING Direct, would mean that in case of closure of ING, or EUR 20,000 maximum grantizados or nothing at all? We keep a hand in front and one behind?

Someone really know the seriousness of this entity?

Oriol, the article today, brilliant!

A greeting,

# 26, Fran Diaz

September 29, 2008, at 10:02.

# 15, Poor Hablador:

If you're not going to invest the money left over, then the trick is not worth you.

But if you do, calculate your net profit: when I buy and sell for 100 to 120, I'm 20 euros of profit.
¿Overcomes that the interests that had to be paid? If, by a margin that convinces me (maybe I am not convinced at 1EUR) -> amortized share. No -> Term.

And we must bear in mind that those 20 euros may be increased by half the CPI during the lifetime of the loan.

Greetings!
Land owners: the Blog

-1

# 27, hipotecadisima

September 29, 2008, at 10:05.

I have 2 mortgages in the absence of a j ... and I see this as going up this the way you do, I think this has to stop some day, but many will be left by the wayside and probably without a home, I Work on the 012 phone that many know, I'm from a small province and I can assure you that we do not cope with the amount of work we have in the offices there are queues montruosas and some you can not meet until mid-October, but what Best of all, when it comes to collecting unemployment, no money and people take to recover, taking months to pay the unthinkable, and I recognize that I am doing a Pelin racist because you can not imagine the amount of South Americans who call to ask and some have pay nisiquiera roles, as well as for the voluntary return, so that if there is money and every day I listen to people who have not paid and who has children to feed, and if it is true that unemployment will rise this month as well, you can not imagine all the work that unfortunately we have here, I know that this change is a cycle and if so, what scares me is seeing people that will fall with this, which are enough and if I escaped because I rented my house and I live in the other, but be run as everyone buys the house and not to speculate, if not because I had been small.
I hope this happens soon and begin to recover

+12

# 28, hipotecadodeporvida

September 29, 2008, at 10:07.

Great article today ... ..
I like hipotecadodeporvida, custodian and father divorced not maltreated by justice (of the family courts) .. .. I can live without as many resources and I had to look for life as I could, and the truth .. it feels good .
Working in a large company (very large) .. for nearly 22 years .. and counting that I have 40 ... I can complain about the job, but no salary .. the truth ... I have to go from a macrohipoteca .. 5 years .. and I have an income in black (if .. .. I would if I admit) for about 600 euros / mes.y apart .. and when my salary next few thousand eurillos, repaid in as the pay .. less mortgage / month, I may live a little more comfortably .. poquillo save more and recouping most mortgage ... .. although the explanation of Oriol, both to recoup market share or deadline, I found very correct,

CUSTODY AND SHARED
DISSOLUTION BIENES OF COMMON AND AFTER DIVORCE

+40

# 29, bloval

September 29, 2008, at 10:11.

Although it is not helpful because I have no mortgage, very helpful article and will be put on favorites to answer future questions on the same topic that will be safe here.

Today it seems that Europe has realized the scale of the banking crisis and is noticing the bag but it is only the putna of the iceberg: How many banks left to break?

# 30, mileurista

September 29, 2008, at 10:12.

Very good article, and is not affected if it does so at cuata or forward, but we must add to retire, if you do not pazas the legal limit and pay as you return to that, that equates finances to put 15% of that money as tax relief.

# 31 , Juan

29 de Septiembre de 2008, a las 10:13.

Si, es lunes.
IBEX 35 11.099,70 -2,53%

Por cierto, Oriol, me acabas de hacer un hombre feliz. Por fin tengo un argumento sólido para ganar un discusión que he tenido con mucha gente

# 32 , Copero

29 de Septiembre de 2008, a las 10:15.

Ojo con sumar peras, manzanas…y cómo se suman.

Os sonará este ejemplo a algunos, pero os lo cuento:

Tres soldados van a un bar y pide cada uno una cerveza. A la hora de cobrar, el camarero les exige 10 ptas a cada uno (por tanto son 30 ptas). El dueño, que se percata del asunto, y siendo buen amigo de los reclutas, le dice al camarero que les devuelva 5 ptas. Pero como el camarero es muy cuco, se queda dos pesetas y le devuelve una a cada soldado con los agradecimientos de su jefe.

Resultado: Cada soldado ha pagado 9 ptas por su cerveza.

9×3 son 27, y dos que se ha quedado el camarero son 29. ¿Dónde está la peseta que falta?

Conclusión: No sólo es importante sumar peras y manzanas, sino también es importante cómo.

Un cordial saludo.

# 33 , inmoblog

29 de Septiembre de 2008, a las 10:20.

Es una pregunta recurrente que hago a compañeros de banca justo cuando va a terminar el año.
La respuesta suele ser la de amortizar a cuota, posiblemente porque al banco le venga mejor ese tipo de aportaciones.
Fiscalmente hay diferencia entre una amortización y otra?

gracias por los cálculos,
inmoblog.com

# 34 , Copero

29 de Septiembre de 2008, a las 10:22.

Por cierto Oriol, y al hilo del citado artículo. Siempre he sido defensor de que el esfuerzo de acortar plazo o cuota es el mismo, añadiendo que, siempre y cuando, el salario esté indezado a la inflación, es decir, que tengamos un aumento de sueldo acorde a la inflación, porque en la situación actual, pocos son los casos en los que la subida de salario sea parecida a la inflación (cuando no, que no haya habido aumento de sueldo).
No obstante, nunca está de más un poco de cultura financiera.

Un cordial saludo.

# 35 , dale a tu cuerpo alegria macarena

29 de Septiembre de 2008, a las 10:22.

Al amortizar plazo se sigue pagando la misma cuota…
es así pero no es real… pagas lo mismo pero aumenta la parte correspodiente a amortizacion y disminuye la parte de intereses.
En mi caso amortizar 1000 euros me supone quitarme 6 meses de hipoteca o quitarme 5 euros al mes.
En el caso de reducir plazo, ademas de reducir la hipoteca en 6 meses, estoy pagando 5 euros menos de intereses cada més.

# 36 , Thälmann

29 de Septiembre de 2008, a las 10:23.

una curiosidad:

tienes en un banco X, hipoteca de 200.000€ y pasta en cuenta de 50.000€
que pasa si el banco quiebra ?

- lógica: les debes 150.000€ ( 200.000-50.000 ). Se compensa activo y pasivo.
-como me temo que puede ser: les debes 200.000€
el Fondo de garantía te develve, Dios sabe cuando, 20.000€
pasas a ser acreedor de 30.000€, que esos los perederás seguro….

alquién me puede explicarcómo sería ?
gracias

# 37 , Bhaal

29 de Septiembre de 2008, a las 10:23.

Muy bueno Carlos!!

Me ha gustado mucho la explicación, aunque no muy clara porque requiere pensar está fina…por cierto otra consideracion para decidir cuota o plazo es si puedes pagar la letra en ese momento…si no puedes entonces reduce cuota!

Saludos,
euribor burn them all!!

# 38 , J.

29 de Septiembre de 2008, a las 10:25.

a # 5 , Maño H20

Pues lamento contradecirte, pero hoy yo estoy negativo: después de lo del B&B, Fortis y el alemán patas arriba… más el hecho de que el plan Paulson al final se ha aprobado descafeinado con leche descremada y sacarina en vez de azucar…. las bolsas ya lo están pagando (-2,55% a las 10:22).

El euribor lo pagará en una hora o así: yo creo que hoy sigue - lamentablemente para muchos - el turmalet ascendente.

Y que trinchete - a estas alturas de la película - suba o baje la tasa de descuento es indiferente. El diferencial de 120 pico puntos básicos con el euribor se debe a otras cosas… cosas que de momento van de mal en peor (desconfianza). Lo mismo te encuentras con que trinchete pega un bajón y el 12 meses sigue ascendiendo.

Y sino, al tiempo.

# 39 , Toni

29 de Septiembre de 2008, a las 10:28.

Buenas a tod@s. Fenomenal oriolc.
Una pregunta. Desde el punto de vista del Banco, existe alguna diferencia entre cuota y plazo? Que es lo que más le interesa al prestamista?
Mi respuesta es que depende de las circunstancias. En las actuales le interesa recoger plazos, en un entorno normalizado le daria igual.
Cual es tu opinion?
Gracias…..

# 40 , J.

29 de Septiembre de 2008, a las 10:31.

a # 35 , Thälmann

muy sencillo:

- El FGD te devuelve 20.000 euros (en un plazo de 1ó dos meses)
- Los 30.000 restantes pasan al concurso de acreedores. Puede que te lleguen a devolver un 30-50%, con suerte, cuando se liquide el banco. En años.
- Los 200.000 de tu hipoteca - íntegros - siguen ahí y sigues teniendo que pagarlos. Todos. Eres “la otra parte” del concurso de acreedores.

Asín es la vida.

# 41 , fyahball

29 de Septiembre de 2008, a las 10:31.

Interesantísima y valiosísima reflexión entorno a las crisis globales y sobre la organización ( y descomposición ) del mundo en que vivimos:
El col.laborador ( El Colaborador ) en el Teatre Tarantana, Paralel, Barcelona. De Friedrich Dürrenmatt. Impresionante puesta en escena del gran trabajo de Dürrenmatt.

A partir del tema de fondo de la crisis de 1973, mi admirado Dürrenmatt desarrolla toda la problemática de las sociedades modernas, una visión dura y trágica del podrido mundo materialista en que vivimos… Absolutamente recomendable y precios asequibles.

NEVER GET CAUGHT IN A MATERIAL WORLD!!!
RASTA BURN DEM!!!

# 42 , faliqui

29 de Septiembre de 2008, a las 10:35.

Muy buen análisis sobre la amortización de capital.

Como he dicho en el foro todo está muy controlado por los bancos y nunca dejan de perder, las dos opciones son, al menos equivalentes.

Saludos

# 43 , Larry Lurex

29 de Septiembre de 2008, a las 10:49.

Pues yo lo tengo claro, me acabo de pulir todos mis ahorros en amortizar mi hipoteca un 27% y bajar cuota. Así aumenta ipso facto mi renta disponible y comienzo de nuevo a ahorrar.
la bolsa a la baja (aún le queda), los tipos al alza (aunque creo que por poco) los intereses de los depósitos no cubren ni la inflación…
claro, clarete
saludos

# 44 , Carlos Lopez

29 de Septiembre de 2008, a las 10:50.

Un par de buenas noticias en un día algo gris.
Sube el dólar (1.434€) y baja el petróleo (un 3%), parece que poco a poco se calma la inflación.

# 45 , hipotecaohastalamedula

29 de Septiembre de 2008, a las 10:53.

Oriol, me parece muy bueno el artículo, pero como soy informático, de los de 0 ó 1 , no llego a entenderlo bien y en mi incultura, discrepo un poco de tu apreciación y me gustaría que me explicaras en qué estoy siendo erróneo en mi cálculo.

Dispongo de una hoja excell en la que calculo como tú todo esto de las hipotecas.

Primero: Con qué Euribor calculas tú 150.000 € a 25 años con Euribor +0.5 para que te salga una cuota de 867??? A mi me da un Euribor de : 4.4 Más o menos.

Bueno al tema, inicialmente con 150000 a 25 años y 4.9 de interés al final de los 25 años pago : 260.000 € (intereses = 110.000 €).

Supongamos que amortizo 6000 € el primer mes que puedo:
Reduzco cuota: Cuota resultante 833 €. Al final del periodo (25 años) pago: 250.899 €. (intereses = 106.066)
Reduzco plazo: Me ahorro 22 cuotas. Al final del periodo (25 años - 22 meses) pago : 241.250 €. (intereses = 97.160)

Si según tu teoría, da lo mismo, me pasa como el ejemplo de los reclutas, donde están los 9000€ que me faltan??

Seguramente la teoría financiera me los justifica con el valor del dinero, y todo eso, pero lo que creo es que la TEORÍA financiera olvida la parte subjetiva que no es otra más que: NO QUIERO PAGARLE AL BANCO NI UN PUTO INTERÉS MÁS DE LO NECESARIO.

Creo que la teoría financiera sigue haciendo cálculos por un total de 25 años para justificar que ambos casos son iguales. Creo que aquí está el fallo de tu teoría. La teoría vale para los cuadernos. La práctica es el día a día, cuánto vale en Euros la moral de alguien ante incertidumbres como estamos pasando cuando puedes reducir tu VINCULO 2 años por cada 6000 €??

Mi opinión es la siguiente: Supongamos que tienes 6000 €. Si puedes sacarles un interés superior al TAE que tienes en tu hipoteca, invierte, pero aún así, al llegar a fin de año, si esos 6000 € te valen para alcanzar tu máximo de cara a hacienda, amortiza y hazlo a plazo.
Si no puedes sacarles a esos 6000€ más del interés de tu hipoteca, amortiza a plazo cuanto antes.

(PS.: No se si poner la explicación a lo de los reclutas o esperar un poco… la verdad que es un comedero de cabeza curioso…)

+16

# 46 , curioso

29 de Septiembre de 2008, a las 10:54.

Oriolrc… dos consideraciones…

1.- si los 50€ de hoy, no los empleas en nada, el valor de estos es igual al valor de los 50€ de mañana. Financieramente hablando.
Si el capital no emite o genera rentas, se devalúa por definición.

De todas maneras, como decimos aquí, “más vale pájaro en mano que ciento volando…” Así, que a la butxaca!

2.- correcto y de acuerdo con que las dos opciones dan resultados iguales, pero amortizando capital, reduces la obligación y la deuda de golpe. De otro modo, la reduces a futuros y poco a poco.
De nuevo…”más vale pájaro en mano…”
Tampoco no has tenido en cuenta, que si una persona es capaz de amortizar 6.000€ pagando la cuota actual, será capaz de amortizar algo más si ahorra 36€ más al mes.

Pero vaya, como has dicho, ni bueno ni malo, pero yo lo tengo claro…

…”más vale pájaro en mano…” que pájaro de 23 años… ni pa’ caldo!

# 47 , mercu3

29 de Septiembre de 2008, a las 10:59.

Enhorabuena por el articulo, me parece que ha sido el mejor en mucho tiempo

Mira que yo era partidario de hacer amortizaciones siempre en plazo (ya he reducido la vida de la hipoteca en 7 años mediante amortizaciones) y de hecho mientras mi economia me lo permita las seguiré haciendo de igual modo, aunque no tendré tan buen sabor de boca por creer haber ahorrado “muchisimo más” que amortizando cuota.

gracias de nuevo!

# 48 , casty

29 de Septiembre de 2008, a las 11:02.

Amortizar plazo es casi siempre lo mejor.

1) La recomendación general a la hora de pedir una hipoteca, es pedirla con el menor plazo posible. Es decir, aumentando al máximo la couta. Por una sencilla razón. Ningún banco te va a dar más por el dinero que no amortices (euribor - X), de lo que tienes que pagar al banco por no haber amortizado (euribor + Y). No sé por qué esta asumción tiene que ser diferente en una cancelación parcial. Esto partiendo de la base de que no sepas qué hacer con tu dinero a parte de dejarlo en un depósito de interés fijo.

1.5) Se ha dicho hasta la saciedad, que las hipotecas de menor plazo son más inmunes a los cambios del euribor. Para bien o para mal.

2) Si amortizas, es que puedes pagar más que la cuota mensual, por lo que es muy posible que hagas amortizaciones futuras. Si reduces cuota, tendrás que aumentar el importe de las cancelaciones parciales, lo que implica, en mucho casos más comisión.

3) Si tienes un seguro de protección de pagos por desempleo. Éste te cubre 12 mensualidades, por lo que tampoco interesa reducir la mensualidad.

Resumiendo: Reducir cuota es lo mismo que reducir mensualidad en el entorno ideal del laboratorio de Clopez. Pero en la práctica, es mejor reducir plazo. Lo mismo que al formalizar una nueva hipoteca.

“En teoría, la teoría es igual a la práctica, pero en la práctica no”
- No sé en qué libro lo leí.

+17

# 49 , Murdok

29 de Septiembre de 2008, a las 11:05.

Para Carlos Lopez.

Muy buen post y buenos calculos, aunque yo añadiria 2 cosas a esos calculos, para empezar yo soy de los que hacen los calculos mal para aconsejar a alguien, soy consciente de que el dinero hoy no vale lo mismo que mañana, pero tb que para que alguien que hace esa pregunta no va a entender tus calculos que aunque mucho mas precisos tb son mas complicados de hacer y entender.

Las 2 cosas que añadiria es que aunque dentro de 25 años 900€ para mi no seran lo que son ahora tb tengo muy claro que mi sueldo no sube un euribor +0,55 si no mas bien un 2,5-3 anual, luego para mi el dinero no perdera tanto valor, con lo que 900€ aunque seran menos para mi, seguiran siendo parte importante de mi sueldo.

y la otra que por un lado al amortizar 6000€ dejas de pagar intereses y futuras revisiones de euribor de esos 6000€ y tal y como va el euribor… y por otro lado que amortizar 6000€ de cuota me suponen 2 cocacolas al mes, y una revision despues vuelvo a pagar 20 cocacolas mas .

Tb es sabido por la mayoria y creo recordar que lo pusiste aqui una vez, que a partir de x años para x dinero lo unico que aumentas practicamente es los años que pagas la letra reduciendo solo unos € sin importancia.

Por ultimo muchas gracias por tan buenos articulos diarios y no cierres esto nunca.

# 50 , Murdok

29 de Septiembre de 2008, a las 11:09.

# 43 , Carlos Lopez

Porque es bueno que suba el dolar?¿, por que las exportaciones europeas tienes mas cabida en el mercado?

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