Afinsa Philatelic Forum ... ... Does natural forests?

Today it time to talk about the news of "financial" of the year, the case Afinsa-Forum Filatélico.
To that end, rescue a very interesting document of the OCU, which dates back to February 2004, which already warned us something ...

Editorial: (as I read through Newsvine, already warned in year 96 in the magazine Money)

This article is generating quite controversial, so we encourage that you read the comments (bottom of page) to gain a better view of the matter.

Summary of the magazine OCU

In Spain, banks, savings banks, securities firms and insurance companies should be subject to supervision by the financial supervisory authorities in the field (Bank of Spain, National Commission of Stock Market and Directorate General of Insurance). In this way, although the control is not always as effective as expected, the investments offered by these institutions are supported to some extent. In addition, for current accounts, term deposits and investments in assets, guarantee funds that exist to compensate consumers in case of bankruptcy of the entity. But alongside these modalities "controlled" There are many companies collecting and investment, which are not required to enroll in the official records of supervisory authorities, so it can not be controlled or sanctioned by them. The investments offered are not covered by any guarantee fund to protect investors, but it is enterprises themselves who must respond to any claims that may do the customers. In the event of bankruptcy, the only guarantee is the property in which you have invested.

The OCU came from an anonymous three of these companies Afinsa, Art and Nature and Natural Forests - in demand for information and made investments in ellas.En Afinsa we were offered investment products with a fixed annual return of between 6% and 8% depending on the term. After an investment of 600 euros, handed over as collateral a lot of stamps with a value of catalog, according to several philately consulted, not even reach 100 euros.

In the case of Art, the investment of 1,200 euros was materialized in two serigraphs by a Hungarian artist that the company was committed to buy back at six months by an amount greater than the initial, assuring a return of about 8%. The OCU came into contact with 21 galleries and auction houses and none showed interest in acquiring the works. Only two of them reported that in the hypothetical case the Auction to benefit, its starting price would be between 60 and 120 euros. One-tenth of the amount invested and no guarantee that anyone bids for them!

The third investment that the OCU was analyzed Natural Forests. They offered an investment in cherry and walnut trees to a term of 20 years or a repurchase agreement with a profit of between 3.6% and 8.4% annually depending on the term. The price at which each tree is valued at around 400 euros, while, according to several nursery Forestal consulted and the Consortium of Catalonia, should price around 220 euros for a plantation to 25 years.

Ultimately, the OCU advises investors to stop this kind of property to the collectors and experts and wary at the moment of investments that are advertised as "safe" and to offer beyond the 4.5% annual long term. In addition, the OCU returns to reiterate their demands with regard to investments not controlled: that the formal institutions do not wash their hands and that an organization supervisor of the Administration to monitor the activity of these firms to protect investors. As for those already controlled, the OCU seeks to increase up to 100,000 euros the amount covered by the guarantee fund (now covers only 20,000 euros per head) and which extends its protection to insurance, pension plans and investment funds that currently lack it.

Written by Carlos Lopez on May 10, 2006 with 16 points.
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16 comments

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Trackback # 1 Mention from Meneame.net
May 10, 2006, at 9:13.

meneame.net: Case Philatelic Forum: If we had warned ...... But as always, we do not learn. They warned the OCU in February ...

# 1, Luis

May 10, 2006, at 13:19.

The crisis occurred yesterday in Afinsa and Forum Filatélico, had been warned for years to all regulatory body in financial matters (Bank of Spain, CNMV, General Directorate for Insurance and Pension Plans of the Ministry of Economy) and the National Institute Consumer Affairs and the Ministry of Health and Consumer Affairs. You can see the original letters sent in 2002 to these agencies by the Users Association of Banks, Insurance and boxes, as well as the responses of the CNMV and the DGS declared not competent for that purpose.

Letters sent in February 2002 the Bank of Spain, CNMV and DGS, and the answers given by the agencies of the case inhibiéndose

It seems everything is motivated by the bankruptcy of BANFISA (Bank Philatelic Spanish) in early 2002, which left thousands of people affected.

Already back then was called for the regulation of the activity in tangible goods being carried out by Afinsa and Forum, so they were controlled and supervised like any other entity that plays with the savings and investments in people.

I think the announcement made by the government to regulate the activities of investment in tangible assets reached a "pelín" late.

Salu2

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# 2, Afinsa

May 14, 2006, at 5:14.

What natural forest as far as I know, the business system is not the same thing, as long as the trees are revalued over time.

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# 3, Antonio

May 17, 2006, at 8:29.

Can not be mixed now as journalists make the churros with merino ... that is, the investment in trees is totally different to that of stamps or art. One pays money for the purchase of some trees and agroforestry companies undertake to look after them and keep them for 20 years. At the end of the contract, the customer charge what the wood on the basis of their volume and quality advantage in the marketplace. So simple.

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# 4, Vincent

May 17, 2006, at 17:48.

I begin to be somewhat tired of all the organizations that now "opportunistic" begin to swell chest. I refer in particular to the OCU, I want to remind people in general, who were among the most advised to invest in stock market through Gescartera. So quiet. As for the evidence of investment made, I can only speak of that made in Art and Nature and was really ill. This is so because if you try to sell your works to a gallery or an auction company, of course you will not pay the price for public sale, since they bear a large part of the gain. This issue was already discussed in her day with this publication and had to retract. But of course, now re-draw chest. Well, gentlemen, no, that if any customer of art and nature will ensure their works with a company entirely unrelated to the company, such as Axa Norton, you see that the valuation by the insurer agrees with the amount invested and in no case has revoked the amount assessed. This is already true mix of everything.
A greeting

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# 5, Lotus

May 24, 2006, at 9:33.

There is talk constantly tips on where to invest ... But it is done, it is said, is preached, from large forums without any knowledge on the subject ... And so much talk already is up too, that both are carrying a sector of Sustainable Development it is necessary for our society ...

With things like this, some journalists are effectively blocking other scandals of today, those who are not interested so much talk, but it is on the other side, giving coverage to these first are the "ready" for the OCU. These guys that have to underpin an investment trust only if the Bank of Spain behind, or the Directorate General of Security, or the CNMV. And I think that is entirely correct.

But they are crushing to a company like Forest Natural SA, and for no reason, rather than the chairmen of Forest Forum and are brothers ...

Well:

Have entered into http://www.cnmv.es?

Click on search and entities ... in the search engine that opens type the word Natural Forests ...

Be surprised when they see coming out: Natural Forests of the Mediterranean, 1 S. Com by A. (Company limited by shares) ...

And that is? OPV is a (public offering of shares) that did Forests Natural SA, in the year 98. Why no journalist, nor ready for the OCU talk about this?

The IPO of BNM1 is registered in the CNMV and has seen his good ... that is deliberately flip ...?

You'll have to see the intensive cultivation of timber trees on farms irrigated with collecting stamps?

No one has peguntado how much membership in the occupied? But hey ... what we have to pay money to these guys is a lot of money ... ... and you only accept money ... I myself river of the word "association" ... the OCU is a company with the whole mood of profit in the world, serving only where he sees clients (and, incidentally, annual dues) ... and now with the Afinsa and Forum, they see a bonanza of 350,000 shares of new members.

Let's see:

If we multiply these potential new affiliates 350,000 shares (affected by Afinsa and Forum Philatelic), for 50 € per year charged by the OCU to be able to defend them, we would be talking about respect? From € 17500000.00 about? She looks? It is not obvious? To me it seems, but júzgalo yourself ...

I also montaría an OCU on this money ...

Why is the OCU as interested in throwing down the sector of agricultural real economy, which generates so many jobs in the area stable? One sector that invests in the countryside between 80% and 90% of its resources?

Will be for the 8,000 customers of BN, which can be transformed into additional 8,000 members? So to win others over € 400000.00 a year?

But who is the OCU to say in public that recommends selling whatever you have in Forest Natural SA ... but if for reasons that have make clear that have not read a single contract for those who recommend selling ... but if you speak from the but absolute ignorance ...

And the OCU, with its wisdom, recommended in its day to invest in Gescartera, as well as investing in Eurobank Mediterranean ...

Shame gentlemen of the OCU. You have prostituted the word "Association of Consumers and Users ..." (I think) ...

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# 6, Ana

May 24, 2006, at 9:58.

The OCU mafia simply want to collect their prey, or rather their prey, namely the thousands of customers who walk disoriented before much information of one kind and another.

These are the OCU as hyenas ... They are waiting for the moment of weakness of the (vc) dam, to plunge into the neck, and helped by some journalists who do not have time or do not want to discuss the topic in question, it gives them cover, as if The OCU was a Supreme Intelligence Center ... In my opinion are some storytellers, some ignorant, some phony, about extortion, and since then have yielded few times on the board ... If they throw a thousand darts, of course, some will on the board, but in return have been charged thousands of jobs for their own benefit ...

I long ago gave me low, because neither I met when I went as affiliated with a particular complaint, for me to defend a bad purchase ... I am talking about 7 years ago.

You knew that these types who claim to defend the consumer, just make them are cases where unit case, but nevertheless devoted to extort money from companies to win multiple affiliations?

I worked from 6 years ago thing in one of these companies that are putting the OCU to give birth, and I was surprised and after 3 attempts and repeated failures of a seller of the OCU who came to our headquarters, with the intention that we announce in his journals (one is named Money, I think), uncles or shorts or lazy, given our refusal to pay them money or partnering with them, at 3 months of that, they made a report discouraging the purchase of our company that nerve ... ...

And I do not care ... Just go to your membership dues ...
I hope some day a court where they put EREC be: the first thing away from the consumer advice, and second by paying millions in fines to all companies that have ruined, and if it is possible that one of its leaders, also happens to a temporadia shade by Soto del Real, or in Alcala Meco ...

And this is all the help we consumers? My Mother, God-grab confessed.

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# 7, Carlos

June 5, 2006, at 9:00.

What is not said philatelic consulted is that they buy from sell at 100.00 euros to 300.00 as its list price is 600.00. The information is made depending on the desirability of some country ... go ...

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# 8, pedro war

July 23, 2006, at 9:37.

Why met days before the operation ATRIO afinsa and several executives of a major Spanish bankers in the Atrium Hotel in Valladolid for several hours?

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# 9, Victor

August 30, 2006, at 15:51.

There are several issues had to add regarding the OCU and the alarm that generated by taking advantage of the misfortune of others, both investors and workers forum, and afinsa.
Visit the website of the OCU, and is certainly surprised when I saw that the page was headed by an ad, I quote, whose header was "SUPERMARKET OF INVESTMENT FUNDS OCU." It is surprising that a consumer organization promotes investment funds through its website, and attack other investment proposals, if not with partial information maliciously, at least with very little rigor, and great ignorance of information processing.
As far as I know, there is very little ethics, asserting that companies in the sector of sustainable forestry, trees sold for exorbitant figures, when a nursery sells for X money. Giving this information without explaining that what the customer buys are not just trees, but disbursed once all the services and costs that caring for their trees generate, throughout their reproductive cycle (between 15 and 20 years) between to be included, the purchase of agricultural land, machinery, safety measures, fencing, treatments from trees, tilling, pruning, fertilizers, drip irrigation systems, construction of ponds for rainwater harvesting, avoiding use other communal water resources, such as underground, recruitment of workers in administration, salaries dpto commercial, social security for them and many others.
A well-informed person, which adds to the information behind the OCU, there are significant bank interest. Let each side draw their conclusions. A greeting,

victor

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# 10, MissKatties

September 11, 2006, at 6:13.

Hi! Is here present my sexy lover Bradd? ...
I hope you're here ...

with love from Katti

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October 8, 2006, at 21:04.

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# 12, Martina

December 29, 2006, at 4:08.

Where is the moderator of this discussion?
Why has not removed the last two spam?
More seriously, please.

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# 13, Salvador

October 28, 2007, at 8:43.

Rely on the OCU for his criticism of Natural Forests. I got the news from this company stock but not criminal, I are showing that they are a lobby extreme, nothing more than that, something like the SS.

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# 14, miguebosques

April 24, 2008, at 10:52.

Hello everybody!
Following the last meeting of Natural Forests, as we saw q q what is now playing an accordion operation. And now q. Well, now do we will wait?.
... See you soon!

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